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I recently published a piece in Counterpunch
and a couple other places that I titled "Keep
It Radical!" The essence of the piece was that it is
important to develop and maintain a radical (in the fundamental
sense of the word) analysis of the situation and that the best
tactics are not always the nicest ones. I received several responses
to the piece. One of them was from a hiphop artist and activist
in California, who has also written pieces that appeared in Counterpunch. After I listened
to a couple of his songs (which can be found at this site)
and he and I traded some emails, I asked him a few questions.
The transcript follows.
Ron: Hi Nate. First, can you tell the readers who you are
and what you do. Where are your roots?
Nate:My name is Nate
Mezmer. I'm a writer, a rapper and an activist. I'm interested
in disturbing peoples senses and creating social change. I was
born in Stockton, California. And I moved to the Bay Area when
I was about 10 years old. I was raised in a suburban community
that was influenced by an influx of people from across the tracks.
Indeed the El Camino Real split the city in half and the high
school I graduated from was the inspiration for the movie Dangerous
Minds. Although I never had a teacher that looked like Michele
Pfeifer...
Ron: In terms of your project
in schools, what does it involve? Do you have a sponsor or do
you go it alone?
Nate:I feel like kids growing up today are being cheated.
When I was in middle school, I was lucky to be exposed to innovative
hip-hop artists like KRS-One, Nas, Jeru tha Damaja, Public Enemy,
Wu-Tang, Redman, Organized Konfusion and even Outkast and The
Fugees. Then at the same time around 93, 94, 95 there were new
underground folks making moves in the Bay Area like the Hieroglyphics
crew and the Living Legends, and along with Company Flow (from
NY) they began to push the independent envelope. Graffiti Art
was also at its peak in San Francisco, San Mateo, Oakland and
San Jose. Compared to now, it seems like there was simply a lot
more innovative and creative stuff going on.
Although now days everyone
thinks they're a rapper, most kids don't really understand the
art. But its not their fault. They are being inundated with a
product that doesn't challenge them to think outside the box!
If kids were not just trying to act like rappers they see on
TV, but also interested in understanding how to write rhymes,
poetry, freestyle, DJing, scratching, mixing, producing beats,
sampling, playing drums, piano, beat-box, drawing, painting,
tagging, dance, break, pop, lock and most importantly if they
were interested or inspirited to take control of there future
with a sense of education and business, then the world would
be a better place! Not because it would create some sort of authentic
and respected legacy for hip-hop but because we would have educated
and free-thinking young people running around! Educated, free-thinking
young people can change the world! It doesn't matter if you like
Punk Rock or Pete Rock, as long as you find you're passion.
So as far as the project, I
am in the process of organizing a group of accomplished hip-hop
artists, dj's, etc in attempts to tour public schools in the
Bay Area and wherever else they'll have us in hopes to expose
the youth to these things. This venture will not be a preachy
"Stay in School" type thing although besides showcasing
the skills we will also speak to topics such as commercialization,
censorship, 'clear channel' and issues like payola. As of now,
I do not have any sponsors however I have spoken with a handful
of schools and they say they are interested. Apparently there
is still a little funding out there available for kids. Hopefully,
we can create some sort of buzz and get the ball rolling. Maybe
Phil Angeledes can back us? Get himself some street cred in the
process for his election bid. I think the kids are our most important
natural resource, thats why I want to do this, and thats why
I opposed the execution of Tookie Williams and thats why I hope
'the Govenator' loses his upcoming campaign! Whats up Phil? Where
you at?
Ron: If you had to name your inspirations, who would be the
first five on your list? Why?
Nate: Woo..only 5 huh. Thats tough. Well in no particular order
I'm gonna say Chris Rock, Saul Williams, Ani DiFranco, Kurt Vonnegut,
and Cornel West.
Chris Rock because although he is a comedian and a major star
he isn't afraid to be political and he isn't afraid to take a
stand. Saul Williams because he is never limited. Rap is limited.
It doesn't always convey they same kind of emotion as singing
or acting, but Saul does it all. He writes, raps, rocks, whatever.
He's like a hip-hop preacher or some sort of prophetic creature
sent to us by the spirit world! Ani DiFranco because she is a
lyrical genius; as good as any hip-hop MC! And her song 'To The
Teeth' greatly inspired my thinking and writing for 'Kill The
Precedent.' Kurt Vonnegut, because every time I read his stuff
I'm always amazed at how good he is at writing and how smart
he is with politics, hypocrisy and human nature. And Cornel West
because his vision and humility is unparalleled among political
figures in this country. He understands the hip-hop generation,
he is down with Christians, Jews, Muslims and Atheists. And he
understands that race is the biggest problem that continues to
divide us however he refuses to give up his fight! And I'm friends
with his brother Clifton..whats up Cliff!! That's 5...I'd rather
do a top 10 though!
Ron: You know, in the past hiphop had an
explicitly political and popular element. Public Enemy and KRS-One
come to mind first. Two questions: is there still such a thing
as popular political hiphop and if not, why?
Nate: Well there are some notable hip-hop artists today that
are political ... Immortal Technique, Dead Prez, Mos Def, The
Coup and to a degree even Kanye West. But, unfortunately it does
not receive much support from major labels and it definitely
isnt supported by commercial radio or television. Remember when
Kanye came out after Katrina and said on a live broadcast that
"George Bush doesn't care about black people." That
was very political. And Kanye is arguably the most popular rapper
in the world. However, after he said that the networks threatened
to take him off some sort of halftime show at an NFL game so
he issued a statement through his people saying he was going
to refrain from such comments and simply be an entertainer.
Its crazy. You cant diss Bush, God forbid you show a womens nipple
at the superbowl but hey the radio can broadcast mindless lyrics
glorifying greed, misogyny and violence all day long on the airwaves
to kids, virtually uncensored!
Thats why political rap isnt
popular. Nobody's thinking! If your always listening to mindless
music which is popularized in the club and on commercial radio
then your never really thinking. I know this from experience.
Indeed if I'm a few drinks deep, and a beautiful women wants
to dance with me to some loud mindless rap music, I'm honestly
not thinking about what the guy is rapping about or his politics
or the fact that she may have a boyfriend or a husband! But thats
the club. Leave it there. Expand your mind. I always tell people,
if your mind is always in the club your never thinking. dare
to listen to something other than 'Shake That Ass For Me!' Get
off your couch and make something happen! Take music lessons!
Go to the gym! Read a book!
Ron: I'm listening to your
song "Bound for Glory" right now. It's obviously about
the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan and the life of a vet. Why did
you choose the title--which I assume you borrowed from Woody
Guthrie?
Nate:I actually got
the idea for the title from listening to Phil Ochs. I think he
was singing Guthrie's song? Anyhow, I wrote the song a few years
back when the war in Iraq was still new, and I began hearing
that there were all these miscellaneous deaths. I came to find
that this included soldiers who had committed suicide. I also
found out that there were a lot of soldiers who took there lives
after they had already returned from the war, of course this
wasn't being counted in the official death tolls. Anyway, I could
see how someone could be easily inspired to fight in Iraq or
Afghanistan thinking that it was a just and patriotic cause.
In light of the bush Administrations claims that Saddam not only
had WMD's but also was linked to Al-Qaida and 9/11. If one was
to go and fight for their country believing all of that to be
true, only to find out that the war was waged on lies, such a
person could become very troubled. Furthermore, many war vets
return from Iraq with gulf war syndrome and other complications
and do not receive proper treatment. The hypocrisy of all of
this could drive somebody to kill themselves and that was what
was happening. Thus, I felt that the story should be told.
Ron: Have you listened to other recent antiwar songs, like
Neil Young's Living With War album and John Fogerty's "Deja
Vu All Over Again?" I know there's others out there in the
hiphop genre-the Coup comes to mind--the punk scene and even
some country songs--mostly by Steve Earle. Do you think any of
them have an effect? If so, how?
Nate:I definitely listen to 'The Coup.' Boots Riley is
one of the few people in hip-hop I feel is really doing it right!
His music is diverse and original and lyrically he is very bold.
Plus he actually goes out and joins the public in the fight.
He's involved. A lot of dudes are talking loud about politics
but they are simply studio revolutionaries. But yeah, I think
musicians that involve themselves with politics can have an effect.
However, they have to reach out and touch people too. If you
simply perform music for people who are already down with what
your saying the message doesn't reach as far. We have to put
ourselves in positions to garner new audiences and expose people
who are not yet aware! Also, folks with big names are not stepping
up enough. Someone like Jay-Z or E-40 or Eminem! If those types
of figures took a stand and threw there weight into the political
arena, a lot more people would take notice. Most importantly,
Young People! Maybe they are worried about losing fans but they
are already super rich so they can afford it! I heard Chuck D
speak one time about how Eminem had said that he wasn't really
political. (this was before he released that anti bush video
right before the 04 election) Chuck followed by saying, "your
30 years old when are you gonna start getting political?"
But thats real. People like Jay-Z, E-40, Eminem. They make a
lot of money off of people who are victims of this twisted system
and I believe they have a greater responsibility to step up there
game. As Boots says, "Pick A Bigger Weapon!"
Ron: You mentioned to me
something about the so-called Hyphy movement in hiphop. Can you
tell the reader what that's about? Also, in your explanation
to me, you said it had some political potential. How do you mean
that?
Nate:The Hyphy movement evolved out of the Bay Area rap
scene, kind of a mixing of gangster rap and party music. Hyphy
is like the Northern California version of Crunk in the South.
Get Hyphy, Get Crunk, Go Wild, Act Crazy. Hyphy has many elements
too it but the most often associated thing with it is the phrase
or action know as "going dumb." Whether it be acting
a fool on the dance floor or driving down the street with your
doors open, pretending the car has a ghost rider, "going
dumb," seems like the thing to do among youth in the Bay
Area and beyond. In fact the phenomenon was on the front page
of the USA today, not long ago!
The problem with the Hyphy
Movement is that it doesn't really have any substance. Indeed
its not really a movement. There are a few people who are making
a lot of quick cash off the endeavor but on the whole it is
not building much that people can use for the future. It has
not yet change the plight of people in the streets, thats for
sure.
However, looking at the positives
of all this, it does have a lot of potential because there is
so much energy involved. The kids are very much into its sound
and fashion and if it could be harnessed or directed i think
it could do a lot of good for people. But a lot of key players
would have to come on board. If the main rappers in the Hyphy
movement are saying its cool to go dumb by doing ecstacy and
sniffing coke, then kids will have a hard time buying into anything
else. Furthermore, I like to ask people "why are so down
with the Hyphy Movement?" "What is it doing for you?"
Indeed not many people are making money off it besides the heavy
hitters and I don't think its inspiring tons of folks to get
good grades in school or to get up to go to work in the morning?
Mostly its a release, something mindless to take your mind off
reality and also its something to belong too! After all its entitled
a Movement! People like to belong. Well why not belong to something
smart. Not dumb. You can get Hyphy and still be smart. In fact
my DJ Manny Black and I like to say, "We get Hyphy but we
don't go dumb."
Ron: I'm not certain of
the terminology here, but do you perform? Is it mostly in the
San Francisco area or do you go on the road?
Nate: Yeah most of my shows have been in Northern California.
Either San Francisco where my label is located or in the Davis/Sacramento
area where I finished college. I've also done several shows in
Southern California and as far up the coast as Portland. Opened
for such people as Prince Poetry, the Living Legends, Grayskul
and The Coup. So yeah, I'm always looking to perform but its
a hustle! Often times promoters aren't checking for new talent.
They simply recycle acts that always perform or they just put
on there own people. Slowly but surely though, I hope the music
will speak for itself! Indeed I think my next album project I'm
working on will help to do so. I hope to have it available to
the masses by the beginning of next year!
Ron: Do you go to protests?
What's your take on their effectiveness?
Nate:The political scene lacks a lot of energy as far
as youth and music. I go to rallies but I'm always disappointed.
There is never enough young people involved and there is always
way too many long winded speakers. Some of them do have very
good things to say but a lot of the times they are not skilled
public speakers! People like that need to put their ego aside
and do whats best for the movement. I have a lyric in one of
my songs 'Talkin Loud, Sayin Nuthin,' that states, "Why
is it so hard to get politically active/ I be the first one to
march but half that shit is backwards/ Just another political
game run by hypocritical chapters/ Delusional revolutionaries
love to hear themselves speak/ But your message ain't impressive
if your delivery is weak."
So yes, I go. But no I don't
think they are effective. I think they could be effective but
often times they are too exclusive and to stiff. No offense to
old white people but its time to expand the movement or its going
to die! How will the movement survive when you are too old to
move?
Ron: I notice that you sample
the guitar lick from Jesus Christ Superstar in your tune "Kill
the Precedent." If I'm not mistaken, it's the lick that's
playing when Jesus is either crucified or when Judas realizes
what he is done? Any significance to that? If so, what is it?
Nate: Wow! You are on top of
it! Yes the loop is from Superstar and no the sample is not cleared!
Tom C (TomC3) who produced that album for me created that beat
especially for Kill The Precedent. It was the first song I wrote
for the album. Initially we thought we were gonna get Zack De
La Rocha on that track but the connection never panned out and
I'm not even sure where he is these days? I hope he is planning
on still making music and remaining involved! He is a very important
voice. As far as significance, it is significant to me! I'm not
sure what Tom was thinking however he is one of those people
that sort of pretends to be non-political when in reality he
is very opinionated and very interested in seeing the Walmarts
and the war-mongers of the world removed from power!
NATE MEZMER, is a hip-hop artist who stands for
social change. His debut album "Kill the Precedent"
was released on Mad 7 Records
in 2005. He can be reached at: mezmerfmk@yahoo.com
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